Living Off Interest

2024-03-21

Imagine you have a large sum of money MM. You decide to put this large sum of money into the stock market and, as the careful investor that you are, you decide to invest it in something low risk for a small return rate of rr.

Of course, one of your life goals is never to have to work this crappy job again. You ask to yourself "would it be possible for me to live off MM, and still grow my money?" In other words, you might take out some fixed amount at regular intervals, say mm, and hope that even if your cash pile gets smaller, compound interest would have you covered.

Disclaimer. This is not financial advice. However I do think that this question, and its answers can be insightful (or at the very least, interesting.) There are still many things that this model does not consider, and it's important to be aware of these things too (see the section on shortcomings.)

All models are wrong, but some are useful. George E. P. Box

Thinking in Periods

Until this point, I've been trying really hard not to use the phrase "per month", or "per year." This is very intentional, because it doesn't matter at all! All that matters is that we work in terms of some regular period (every month, every year, every 10 days, every 6 minutes, you decide!) As long as rr and mm are both expressed in terms of that period, the math will work out.

Modeling the problem

Let's make the scenario abundantly clear: you have an initial sum MM, every period, you take out mm from it and the result accrues by rr, also every period.

Sidenote. Let's turn our attention to rr for a minute. Understanding its value will be very important throughout. Suppose that MM accrues by 5% each period. Then rr should be 1.051.05 (not 55, not 0.050.05, but 1.051.05 !) Why? Well suppose that you put in $100, and those $100 accrue 5% per period. Then, at the end of one period, you'll have $105, but that's equal to 100×1.05100 \times 1.05. If our rate were 12%, rr would be 1.121.12. If it were 100%, rr would be 22. If it were 1337%, rr would be 14.3714.37. In general, rr your percentage number divided by 100, plus one. I really recommend making sure that this makes sense before moving on.

Ok, now we're ready to model the problem. Let's take a look at what happens each period.

Now we can see the pattern: each period, you take out mm, and the result accrues by rr. In general, we have

(((Mm)rm)rm)r\cdots (((M - m)r - m)r - m)r \cdots

This kind of nesting is a pain to write, so let's rewrite it differently. First, notice that the MM on the very inside is multiplied by all the rrs. Secondly, notice that the most nested mm is also multiplied by all the rrs, and that the second most nested mm is multiplied by all the rr except one, the third by all the rrs except two, and so on...

Now suppose that we do this whole process for kk periods. Then, we can rewrite the expression in this form

(M×r×r××rk times)(m×r×r××rk times)(m×r×r××rk1 times)=Mrkmrkmrk1mrk2mr1mr0=Mrkm(rk+rk1++r1+r0)\begin{align*} & (M \times \underbrace{r \times r \times \cdots \times r}_{k \text{ times}}) - (m \underbrace{\times r \times r \times \cdots \times r}_{k \text{ times}}) - (m \times \underbrace{r \times r \times \cdots \times r}_{k - 1 \text{ times}}) - \cdots \\ = & Mr^k - mr^k - mr^{k - 1} - mr^{k - 2} - \cdots - mr^1 - mr^0 \\ = & Mr^k - m(r^k + r^{k - 1} + \cdots + r^1 + r^0) \end{align*}

This is already much easier to write! But where to go from here? If you've never seen it before I don't blame you, but we can actually simplify rk++r0r^k + \cdots + r^0. This is called a geometric sum and in general, we have

rk+rk1++r0=1rk+11rr^k + r^{k - 1} + \cdots + r^0 = \frac{1 - r^{k + 1}}{1 - r}

Why this is equation is true is not obvious and beyond the scope of this article, but you can just trust me that it is (or try it for, say k=3k = 3 and r=2r = 2 !)

With this newfound knowledge descended to us from the heavens above, we can rewrite our form from earlier!

=Mrkm(rk+rk1++r1+r0)=Mrkm(1rk+11r)\begin{align*} = & Mr^k - m(r^k + r^{k - 1} + \cdots + r^1 + r^0) \\ = & Mr^k - m \left(\frac{1 - r^{k + 1}}{1 - r}\right) \end{align*}

That's it! We've now modeled the problem and massaged it into a form which is not even much of a pain to write out. At this point, it's worth stopping to mention that, you could stop right here, plug in your numbers, and figure out how much money you'd have. If that's you, let me at least reiterate what everything above is saying, so that you can be sure you did it right.

How do I know I'm not slowly going bankrupt?

In the previous section, I told you that we had completely modeled the problem. While this is true, there are still some questions we haven't answered. We know at the end of each period how much money we'll have, but what if that number is going down over more and more periods? (Spoiler alert: that does mean you're going bankrupt.)

It's probably important for us to figure out exactly when it does go down so we can avoid it.

A crude way of doing this is to just plug in your numbers for larger and larger values of kk. If you see the number going down as kk gets larger, that probably means you're taking too much money out each period.

Of course, we can be a lot more precise with the right math. This rate of change problem calls for some calculus! (Please don't be scared)

Remember our expression from the previous section? Let's call it ff, its a function (of a couple variables) that tells us how much money we'll have after kk periods.

f(M,m,r,k)=Mrkm(1rk+11r)f(M, m, r, k) = Mr^k - m \left(\frac{1 - r^{k + 1}}{1 - r}\right)

The question we're interested in is: does ff go up as kk goes up? That is, if we chose values for everything else (MM, mm, and rr) and we change kk, does our money go up or down?

Some of you might recognize this as the derivative of ff, with respect to kk. If you don't recognize this, it just means what I said above, and we write it like this

dfdk=The change of f with respect to k\frac{df}{dk} = \text{The change of $f$ {\it with respect} to $k$}

Our goal of course is for ff to go up as kk goes up. If you've never taken a partial derivative before, don't worry, I'll do it for you.

First, we massage ff a little bit

f(M,m,r,k)=Mrkm(1rk+11r)=Mrkm1r+(m1r)rk+1\begin{align*} f(M, m, r, k) &= Mr^k - m \left(\frac{1 - r^{k + 1}}{1 - r}\right) \\ &= Mr^k - \frac{m}{1 - r} + \left(\frac{m}{1 - r}\right) r^{k + 1} \end{align*}

Now, we take the derivative with respect to kk.

dfdk=Mrkln(r)+(m1r)rk+1ln(r)\frac{df}{dk} = M r^k \ln(r) + \left(\frac{m}{1 - r}\right)r^{k + 1} \ln(r)

If this rate of change is positive, we're making money! But where to go from here? Well, we know that we have no control over rr (we could make riskier investments of course, but let's not do that) Instead, let's ask the following question: "How big can I make mm in proportion with MM, without losing money?" In other words, how much of this snowball can I steal from and still have my snowball grow? What we're really looking for here is a ratio of MM and mm, so let's solve for that!

Mrkln(r)+(m1r)rk+1ln(r)>0Mrkln(r)>(m1r)rk+1ln(r)Mm>(11r)(rk+1ln(r)rkln(r))Mm>(11r)(rrkln(r)rkln(r))Mm>rr1\begin{align*} M r^k \ln(r) + \left(\frac{m}{1 - r}\right)r^{k + 1} \ln(r) &> 0 \\ M r^k \ln(r) &> - \left(\frac{m}{1 - r}\right)r^{k + 1} \ln(r) \\ \frac{M}{m} &> - \left(\frac{1}{1 - r}\right)\left(\frac{r^{k + 1} \ln(r)}{r^k \ln(r)}\right) \\ \frac{M}{m} &> - \left(\frac{1}{1 - r}\right)\left(\frac{r \cdot \cancel{r^k \ln(r)}}{\cancel{r^k \ln(r)}}\right) \\ \frac{M}{m} &> \frac{r}{r - 1} \end{align*}

Wow! Look at how simple that result is. I have to admit that when I first solved this system, I was definitely a bit surprised myself. Notice how kk is completely gone! This should make sense, since changing the number of periods we do this over isn't going to make us lose more or less money: it's just going to tell us how much we've made (or lost.)

This result tells us that our ratio should be at least r/(r1)r / (r - 1), but what does that say about mm? If we solve for it, we can know the answer

Mm>rr1m<M(r1r)\begin{align*} \frac{M}{m} &> \frac{r}{r - 1} \\ m &< M \left(\frac{r - 1}{r}\right) \\ \end{align*}

If mm is less than this quantity, we're not losing money!

Shortcomings

It would be disingenuous not to mention certain things that this model fails to consider. Firstly, interest rates are hardly constant. For instance, I mentioned earlier that the S&P 500 returns on average 8% per year, but this is an average. Some years, it might be less (maybe even negative), and some it might be more. The second thing that this model fails to consider is that normal people often have unpredictable expenses. While this model assumes that a constant amount mm is withdrawn each period, one might not find it difficult to imagine that an unforeseen expense may blow out this budget.

There are solutions to these problems of course, one could consider overestimating for mm, or underestimating for rr. However none of these changes would ever truly capture the actual complexity of the problem we attempt to solve. It is up to the reader to decide how to weigh these options.